What is Normal Diet, Mode Of Living, Physical Exercise etc.? Service, Profitable Management & Continuity in Industry! About Untouchability & Harijan Movement! Sufferings from Unsolved Complexes! Law of Providence!

Quest:— What do you mean by normal diet and mode of living, physical exercise through activity, and elevated engagement— that you said regarding health?

Beloved the Lord:— Normal diet is that which is non-irritative, easily digestive, nutritive and placative; normal mode of living means maintaining the conduct in such a way that no such sudden exertion takes place as a result of which, health may break down; and eating and living should not be in such a unrestrained manner that we become maladroit and depressed; and physical exercise should be such as to keep the health and service unimpaired sublime and in good shape. Elevative engagement is, verily, to become engaged in such affairs which, apart from providing proper nourishment to progress, never bring any deterioration of body or mind.

Quest:— And what do you mean, when you say that service basis, profitable management and continuity shall have to be introduced in the industry?

Beloved the Lord:— If intention to serve others, i.e. how to thoroughly nourish and nurture others, be not there, then how can the emergence of industry take place in man? The very meaning of industry is building up from within. Therefore, the basic principle of industry or enterprise is, to go to people, to show sympathy to them, to look after their comfort and discomfort, and to ponder over how to meet all this, so that they can be properly nourished and nurtured, and be saved from sorrows, sufferings and difficulties; and verily the conflicts in the process of knowing such needs and pain helps to build up from within, to be engaged in that wholeheartedly and to meet them. And from this comes profitable management which tells how and where, by making what type of arrangement the elevation can be maintained perfectly avoiding deterioration.

            And to do this, we are to deal with them sweetly and sincerely, and we should stick to this serving attitude and profitable management carefully, actively and continuously. So, these attributes, i.e. characteristics are the real and expedient servants of industry; hence doing industry by a person, in whom these are lacking, is a kind of aerial castle for him. No one can be seen in the world who, has become great but, has not such qualities ingrained in his nature.

Quest:— Well, what is your opinion regarding driving away untouchability?

Beloved the Lord:— We don’t advocate anything such as touchability or untouchability. One does as he wishes,— some eat with Muslims, some don’t. We never say some such thing that one, who doesn’t eat with Muslims, will have to eat; and we don’t have any such idea that by just eating food served by anybody will make us attain salvation, nor do we say that just by not taking food by others we will remain sanctified. We don’t quite believe that much improvement can happen to the nation with either touchability or untouchability. When a brother separates his own brother, and even while eating together when a brother opposes his own brother, then it is not that merely by eating food served by anyone will bring any unity. I think what is first needed is service. Whether we eat food cooked by others or not but, if we can make our efforts for the happiness and well-being of others, then the effect of driving away untouchability will be nothing compared to the effect of our such efforts.

Quest:— Then what do you think of this Harijan movement begun in the country? What would you say about depressed classes?

Beloved the Lord:— I just can’t admit the very idea of depressed. It seems to me that, by repeatedly terming them depressed they are being turned more and more depressed, and they are being segregated into a separate sect. To uplift them, do extend service to them and love them with your heart and soul, bring in the society the development in health, education and industry, and usher them so that they can stay more in contact with the elevated ones. Nothing can be achieved if not done this way. And the compactness within a race is maintained through hypergamous inter-marriage that lets not one race separate from another, yet keeps the grades intact.

Quest:— According to the codified Hindu Law, inter-caste hypergamous marriage is illegal. Then how can the inter-caste marriage, through which upliftment is inevitable as you are speaking about, be possible? And Raghunandan of Bengal ruled out any possibility of inter-caste marriage in Kaliyug.

Beloved the Lord:— Providence is providence, it neither obeys anyone or knows anyone, but keeps its pace in its own way. It recognizes only him who follows it— whether that be laid down in codified law or not, whether Raghunandan certifies that or not. To achieve something that must be done in the way that can be achieved, else nothing will ever be achieved without doing that, and this is the eternal truth, and so also the nature of providence. If the error of those who have compiled these laws of Providence for the welfare of mankind by culling them from Nature, deprives man from some immortal blissful path, then for that they can be held responsible, but Providence does not become responsible even if it is held so. This has never been heard ever anywhere that there remains error in Providence. You can never achieve something or anything without doing in the exact way that can be achieved— this message is perennially unerring and immaculate and will remain so.

Quest:— Well, we Bengalis as a race seem to be a fragmented assembly of these three races— Aryans, Non-Aryans and Muslims. In spite of the fact that they live on the same soil, their ideals and aims are different and, mutual frictions are pretty frequent among them. Despite sharing the same land, could we ever achieve liberty?

Beloved the Lord:— Bengal now has, as if, turned into the kingdom of sorrow and grief, which means, the kingdom of Satan! As much into a kingdom of Satan it will turn, so much will Bengalis turn into a brood of fox, and the end will be in a kingdom of individuals.

Quest:— What is the kingdom of individuals?

Beloved the Lord:— If we don’t follow the aforesaid path, then it will have the same fate at the end as that of the man who has no environment.

Quest:— Why do we suffer so much sorrow, mental anguish, depression at all?

Beloved the Lord:— Sufferings ensue from some unsolved complexes. I may have home complex, I may have money complex also; but to me these two have no correlation,— home doesn’t exist for money, nor money for home, and for this comes sorrows. This sorrow is removed only when those complexes become solved. As for the example—

            “Vidyate hridayagranthishchhidyante sarvasamshayāh,

            kshīyante chāsya karmāni tasmin drishte parāvare.

In this way, man, instead of doing what he wants, does something else that he doesn’t yearn for any more.

Quest:— Then where lies the end of our sufferings, what’s the solution?

Beloved the Lord:— Everything has become disoriented and disordered. There are no proper father and mother; who is taking whose woman, whose son is being born where,— nothing is confirmed. I think, everything will be settled, only when reforms of that type as I have described comes, and whatever I have said is followed explicitly and perfectly.

Quest:— But there is a saying that, birth, marriage and death— these three are predestined by Providence, then how can anyone take another’s woman?

Beloved the Lord:— That is to say, one has been out of hand. What is happening is not in the laws of Providence.

Quest:— Well, suppose we become reformed, but what is to come out of it either? There are many such reformed races in the world who claim that they are independent, but what good are they doing? Igniting hostility and warfare they are doing no better than augmenting sufferings, afflictions and miseries of the world. Shall we do that? Is that man’s ultimate is deal?

Beloved the Lord:— These people have no definite Ideal before them, by fulfilling whom each of them may achieve meaningfulness. So, with the democratic form of egoistic ambition, they, motivated by that very purpose, are moving gradually in development. Also due to the motivation for that purpose invention too has not been thrived less among them. But this development and invention, owing to the lacking of a definite fulfilling Ideal, often brings war, losing the progressive balance of being and becoming. And if there is no Ideal, then war alone becomes the demolishing agent on the path of man’s life. Again, verily the ruthless catastrophic havoc of war, creating grief-stricken mourning in every heart, generates an indomitable eager yearning for the Ideal, culminating an attachment for Beloved the Ideal, as a result of which comes a world of peace and love and life.

            I’m speaking of life because, man does not want to deteriorate, and this is his inner tendency. There is enjoyment in love and, existence in life. Hence, to live and to enjoy harmlessly— herein lies the meaningfulness of man. If some reformer moves with the inclination to fulfill some definite ideal, that is one thing, and to move or do just with the intention to reform the ensuing problems is quite another thing; although those who bring such reformation also happen to be believers in godhead.

Quest:— What is the difference between the two then? Both are reformers, aren’t they?

Beloved the Lord:— One makes the use of Providence to fulfill oneself while the other engages himself to fulfill the ideal.

Quest:— I’ve read in Bible, ‘Beware of false prophets’. Henry Ford too said, ‘The false prophet is usually an honest gentleman whose main error is in posing as a prophet. In fact, it is really difficult to recognize a true prophet, isn’t it?

Beloved the Lord:— The great man is he who has an Ideal, and to serve that Ideal who has become active, and that activity has become meaningful in his conduct speech and service.

Quest:— Does ‘has become meaningful’ suggest ‘has become successful’?

Beloved the Lord:— Yes.

Quest:— You talk of Ideal but, every leader has the ideal of serving the nation, hasn’t he?

Beloved the Lord:— To approach them whose ideal is abstract is bit difficult. I feel the same as Bernard Shaw has said, ‘Beware of the man whose God is in the skies’, because, conflicts from ideal is less in their lives, so also they have less perception; intensity of love, i.e. love for the Ideal is not so much that they can overcome the conflicts against Ideal, so perceptions too are less, and so it is difficult to understand them. And this is an absurd idea that a person who has no some embodied ideal, analyzes, because, the very existence of man depends upon others. Where there is no such thing as ‘you’, there is no ‘I’ either; to remain conscious there has to be ‘you’ or some other.

Quest:— Where is the solution to the problems of industrialism, politics, militarism etc. that are becoming seriously critical in the present world? D Valera, Hitler, Mussolini, Kamal Pasha, Stalin like leaders of different nations have stirred up such a dangerous conflicts of interests that only the clanking of weapons, aeroplane, navy and arms and ammunitions are on the increase throughout the countries of the world; where is its solution?

Beloved the Lord:— If industry stands on the basis of service, if the purpose be to serve others, and if invention fulfills nothing but that, then that manufactures comfort, happiness and life, and then things like that happen no more.

Quest:— But it is seen that initially man moves with the ideal of service, but then eventually he becomes aggressive, as in the case of England, Germany, Japan. Why does this happen? Instead of serving others then it wants to devour them.

Beloved the Lord:— That means, as a single person has an environment around him, similarly a group of people have a bigger environment around them. So the environment of the people of a country is the people of the nearest neighbouring countries. Whenever one country refuses to accept border countries or other countries as its environment and instead of extending service to them oppresses them, then this misery begins.

            Life means nothing but me and my environment— the co-ordination of myself and my environment. If a man be kept in a place where there is no such environment as excites him, he can hardly survive. Where my duty towards my environment will verily be my interest and to serve the environment so that it grows, then the duty of my environment will also be to sustain me and let me grow. As my interest depends on my environment, so the interest of my environment too depends on me. Then what remain are love, life and service,— and so devouring others or war becomes quite impossible.

Quest:— How has, then,  impossible been possible for such a long time?

Beloved the Lord:— Our knowledge is so little that we don’t understand where our interest lies— that is why the road to destruction is so broad.

Quest:— But in the animal kingdom we see that, without committing violence to others no animal can survive; without this attitude even man cannot live or grow, can he? Apart from this, we don’t find that kind of ideal anywhere, do we?

Beloved the Lord:— But that is the ideal of only one side. Man has two motions to choose from— running towards annihilation, and running towards elevation. When we eat by killing, we eat only pangs of death or deterioration, and when we sustain ourselves by auto-excretion then, what we take is the bliss of life.

Quest:— What is auto-excretion?

Beloved the Lord:— Milk for example, when it accumulates in the udder of the cow, it wants to discharge it, wants to feed with it,— like the seers of ancient time who would eat fruits fallen off the stalk.

Quest:— But you say everything has life, in that case killing is perpetrated always by eating, isn’t it? Also it is not that killing is not done by taking milk or vegetables.

Beloved the Lord:— When we become so much sensitive, then so much finer world will open up before our senses, and then we shall be able to discover new kinds of food also, but now, this much.

Female education! Characteristics of Male and Female! Who should propose in marriage? Elevated Intellectualism! Education should be practical and industrial.

Quest:— What are your views regarding female education?

Beloved the Lord:— As boys should be trained, so should be girls too, but of course there must be difference of temperament. The more they both become educated, the better, and whatever comes off this education, is necessarily good for girls. Keeping their distinctiveness intact whatever is essential to develop them must be done.

Quest:— In Britain girls are joining the police force, and the army even; should our girls also emulate this?

Beloved the Lord:— Yes, if need arises they can do everything— many women in our country knew the arts of warfare. But that doesn’t mean that fighting or spying is their characteristic. It seems that whatever is needed to elevate the being and make it equipped means to be their duty.

Quest:— If this is the duty of woman, same is true for man too; what, then, is the difference between them?

Beloved the Lord:— The difference is that woman gets happiness by nurturing, and man becomes happy through getting that nurturance. The characteristic of a man is to procure to fulfill, and that of a woman is to do that by which man becomes nourished, becomes elevated, and to become fulfilled in seeing him thus elevated.

Quest:— I could not quite understand the characteristics of male and female!

Beloved the Lord:— Girls accrue contentment by making one satisfied, nourished and nurtured, and boys get satisfaction by fulfilling the wants. Male has more width in his activity, whereas female has more depth in hers. The width of activity can in no way come much in female, they enjoy the world through male; hence their activities are inner and vigorously concentrated.

Quest:— It is heard that woman is full of love, what does this mean?

Beloved the Lord:— The quest for love first arouses in woman’s heart, and the very symptom of love is to become resounding in admiration; there remains verboseness but no activity means that love has not been set yet. A true woman never says, ‘I shall love only if you love’; it is her nature that consists of love,— and love itself is not like that. Like mother loves her son even before the son has started loving her; afterwards he procures various things and brings them to her mother, and in this manner fulfilling her wants he becomes satisfied. Woman felicitates and nurtures, gives inspiration, by which man becomes nourished; thus through her service enhances the mental and physical wealth of father, brother, husband, child and the like.

            Woman’s inner tendency tends to motherhood, so their education should be intended to nurture this; standing upon this fundamental principle whatever is necessary for a woman ought to be done. Thus it can be seen that to nurture man and to make him elevated and fully equipped woman too needs to learn and perform everything.

Quest:— You said that it is the woman who will propose man in marriage but, this is not seen in the present-day scenario; everywhere in all countries it is the man who proposes woman!

Beloved the Lord:— And by that, man not only wastes himself but, makes the womanhood degraded and dwindled. That, through which the beings of both man and woman remain unimpaired and become thoroughly nurtured is the normal relation between the two. But when man wastes himself, does not become charmed to fulfill the wants of woman, woman, then, says, ‘If, by providing me, you don’t feel contented, don’t feel delighted, your such provisions are painful to me’,— because, the very object of woman is nurturance. Therefore, if woman desires to become man, she will only bring catastrophe to her life; and man too will do the same if ever he desires to become woman.

Quest:— To achieve this, boys and girls have to be educated essentially in a new ideal, haven’t they? I could not quite understand your views on education!

Beloved the Lord:— The elevated intellectualism has to be primarily brought in education. And the elevated intellectualism is that through which come admiration for higher culture and admiration for heroes, so that students can themselves adjust what is favourable and what is unfavourable. Why we should not commit something wrong, say, jealousy or calumny, and to become convinced in that is what we call elevated intellectualism.

Quest:— Terming faith as blind, disobeying authority— this is what has come to be called modern intellectualism!

Beloved the Lord:— This intellectualism is adverse to elevation— the de-elevating intellectualism. It is seen that if man aspires to be great, he cannot become so without a prop,— man rises upwards but like a creeper round the prop.

Quest:— We should accept whatever is good, then why should we depend on only one prop?

Beloved the Lord:— There is a thing called enjoyment, which we can avail of only when we stand at a particular point. We can never feel a thing if we do not remain above that thing. If a thing absorbs me the moment I try to feel that, then I can no more feel that thing. So to feel anything one must remain beyond or above that object; therefore it becomes possible to know the world just by standing at a particular point. Otherwise, our knowledges become a series of unsolved complexes.

Quest:— I couldn’t quite grasp your words. If no knowing is really possible without holding on to something, then I would rather hold something and after whatever I get from it, I would leave that and attach myself to something else— may not proceeding in this manner also do?

Beloved the Lord:— Not at all. Knowing this after holding on to this or knowing that after holding on to that will result into water-tight compartments of series of such knowings— eventuating in unsolved complexes. That will only become burdens, what to speak of penetration or solution or conclusion. This is a kind of insanity. Poking a bit you can expose such symptoms, of the person who has got such state of mind.

Quest:— Couldn’t quite understand. Generally we all do the same, don’t we?

Beloved the Lord:— Take the example of a little baby. Initially it becomes contented with its mother; and for this, an attachment grows in it towards its mother. This way I become attached to my mother,— which is a subject of tension within me. Having my mother a receptive attitude grows in me. A tension is felt inside, from which comes the ideas of the environment and of the world.

            And when I do not get full solutions of my ideas of the world, then with that attitude acquired from the mother, I go to someone else who can solve my problems; then he becomes a new subject of tension in me. From then on, a re-adjustment of my ideas begins; and due to that very tension the world of my ideas is expanded, newer problem arises, and also I get the solution of that; thus I come to love him, admire him, accept him as one superior. Hence there remains no question of holding on to something new, or making someone new as the Ideal or the unit. Those who have not become so, have to live with a series of unsolved complexes. So, there is in the Gita—

“Nāsti buddhiryuktasya na chāyuktasya bhāvanā,

na chābhāvayatah shāntirshāntasya kutah sukham.”—

He, who has not attached to one Beloved the Ideal, has neither intelligence nor thinking. And the unthinking man can have no peace; and how can there happiness for one lacking peace?

Quest:— In that case, apart from the attachment towards the mother, there we have another tension. Won’t this cause dual distraction of the mind?

Beloved the Lord:— If the complexes unfulfilled in the mother do not become fulfilled in him, then such dual-distraction will be inevitable. But if all the complexes become fulfilled in his proximity, then he can normally fulfill one’s parents or other superior ones who remain absorbed in him. In such a situation then, there can hardly be any ground for the dual-distraction. And he with whom one can experience this can be called true Guide of the Ideal.

Quest:— But this, as we see, is absolutely absent in our education. That is why, education, instead of enhancing our working power, as you have said, becomes a burden itself, and make us crippled too. How can the modern educational system of the country be redirected that way? How can we bring this elevated intellectualism?

Beloved the Lord:— That the students are not being infused with any ideal shows that the teachers are lacking in ideal. First and foremost duty of a teacher is to put the ideal before the students gloriously, lucidly and affectionately. Before entering into the classroom they have to prepare their mood in such a way that such an attitude may come. And for that, the teachers ought to be actively uni-centric, remaining actively attached to some embodied Ideal. If they be so, they will always have student-like attitudes. Every teacher of the country has to be primarily a student of this kind if they are to infuse their ideal among the students at all. And as much this student-like attitude will remain awake in them, so much successfully they can impart their ideal among students. In this way, elevated intellectualism has to be spread throughout the country.

            It is fear that makes our will stunted, and love and liking attract and emphasize it. It is necessary to mould the will of students.

Quest:— And you said, education should be practical and industrial, how’s that? How can that be introduced immediately either?

Beloved the Lord:— No problem if they study arts, provided there should be practical something compulsory with that, so that applying it, after leaving the college they can stand on that learning. Also subjects like science, physics, chemistry etc. should be classified and so divided into practical industrial division that the students may finish their college carrier through practice with theoretical lectures. This will enable them to come out with such common sense that, they, shouting ‘who wants a servant’, don’t have to be dissipated into utter ruin finding themselves in between the devil and deep blue sea.

            Further, it needs not to say that, the primary normal education of the Aryans depending on which they earned their livelihood— the agriculture should be maintained all through, and everyone should have the knowledge of it. It should be that even if one cannot get anything for living, he can at least get something out of the land.

Quest:— Well, this education is meant for the grown-ups. But the modern psycho-analysis and science of eugenics testify that man learns whatever he has to, by the time he attains scarcely the age of ten,— is there anything to be done in this regard?

Beloved the Lord:— Normally a child carries the sensations of its surroundings through its eyes, therefore, it is seen that moving its head the child tries to look up and down this and that, smiles or cries. It is the eyes of the child that first conveys into it the environment with sensation; and the brain becomes impressed, active and developed first through the eyes, after that naturally the ears start functioning and then everything else.

            Hence, in order to bring up the child well, such conducts, in the very beginning, are needed on the part of the parents and other family members that their impressions take him towards elevation in later life. But if there remains fault in this, particularly in parents or elder siblings, it become extremely difficult to uproot that, and that will invariably make his life unregulated, distorted and degenerated. In Hindu Scriptures, that’s why, many rules and regulations for reformation derived from day-to-day conduct and behaviour have been laid, and those have been verily termed reformation.

            The main thing is, the attachment between the father and the mother; The way the woman nurtures man to invite him, the pre-natal tendencies of the offspring too become fashioned like that. Then we can assume that the temperament, character and education depend, directly and indirectly, on the father and the mother. And the reformation means reforming or doing perfectly that which takes us towards elevation and upliftment.

Marriage reformation-- consent of girls in marriage, conduct & manner of girls! Aryan Race the greatest one!

Quest:— What do you understand by marriage reform? What are the things that can be done straightaway?

Beloved the Lord:— Right away we can take the consent of girls in marriage; we can, from this very moment, grow an instinct among girls that they should not love or think any man husbandly before marriage or go in contact with any man and select him as husband, lest they should be inclined by lust. They have to be regardful towards those who are superior in race, clan, family, education, conduct and in all respects, and they should offer to only that man, if they must, to whom their heart becomes inclined in devotion and administration and gains satisfaction. There should grow disgust and aversion in them for men who remaining oblivious of the Ideal and charmed by women entice them, lure them or give offer; at least this much we can do right now.

Quest:— What should be the conduct and manners of girls?

Beloved the Lord:— It should be ensured that even not living behind the purdah the girls don’t have to come in contact with men; while going somewhere or for some purpose they should go preferably with superior ones of near relations, then as alternative with aged, wise and honourable persons; except this, it is not good at all to mix with anyone else. Modes and conduct as studying with some student or in the proximity of a young professor in seclusion is indecent for girls. Besides, Aryans are the greatest race, and an Aryan woman will never surrender to Sub-Aryan.

Quest:— Why do you call the Aryans the greatest race?

Beloved the Lord:— Aryans are the greatest race, since they are earliest, and Veda is the record of realizations of the past sages. Those who did not accept this, did not worship the Sun, went away leaving Persia and India.

Quest:— But these days in marriage many don’t accept any discrimination between higher and lower caste or clan! And the affection which ensues through uncontrolled free mixing is the only criterion of marriage in the present civilized society, isn’t it?

Beloved the Lord:— If those who have lower cultural heredity do not mix regardfully with higher cultural heredity, then that higher culture cannot come within them. And if the mixing happens in such a way that regard, love etc. do not grow, then it is futile.

            The relation between husband and wife too should be like that,— it should be nearer, it should be dearer, but with a distance. Otherwise, as is the saying— ‘you, perhaps, will not be able to win your own ones’. The distance should be as much as it should be; like we can’t see the our face if the mirror is held too close to the eyes or nose, therefore, an honourable distance must be there. And along with this there should be a difference of age between the husband and wife.

Quest:— How much?

Beloved the Lord:— At the time of marriage there should be a gap of fifteen to twenty years between man and woman.

Quest:— Are you not then against the freedom of woman? Don’t you want woman’s liberty?

Beloved the Lord:— The freedom of a woman lies in her distinctiveness, i.e. where her characteristics may blossom freely,— and the fulfillment of this means her liberty. Male is male and female is female. There can’t be any comparison whatsoever between the two. Female is supreme at her distinctiveness, and so is male at his distinctiveness.

Quest:—  What are the specific distinctiveness of female nature?

Beloved the Lord:— Female nature is easily flexible, easily sympathetic, and can easily influenced by other elements, hence her qualities easily assume the shapes of good or bad according to the alteration of time or person.

Quest:— And the age, as you advocates, should be fifteen to twenty years between the husband and wife— isn’t this nearly like the relation between father and daughter?

Beloved the Lord:— Only such a man, taking the support of whom a woman may live, taking the refuge of whom she may be nurtured and nourished in all respects, can be worthy to be pati— the husband who possesses the capacity to fulfill. There exist fatherly instincts in husband, so husband and father, i.e. pati and pitā have originated from the same etymological root. A girl cannot be nourished sexually by her father but, there is no bar in getting nourished sexually by the husband— only there the husband differs from the father. So, only such a man, having fatherly attributes, by whom, there is no inhibition in getting sexually nourished, can become the husband.

Quest:— But our apprehension is that in such a case normal love or affection between wife and husband is impossible!

Beloved the Lord:— If the wife is such younger, then her association elates the man into vitality, i.e. endows him with longer life— such reference is found in Ayurveda too. And if the wife is of the same age, then equal deterioration takes place in both, and neither of them is properly nourished. Owing to the nearness of age, there remains the equality of knowledge, and so, the wife generally doesn’t take the husband worthy of her to follow. As a result of this the wife very often behaves indecently with the husband, hence the husband loses her respect, becomes contemptible to his wife, and the wife, without much thinking or contemplating on such matters that she doesn’t like, and to prove her supremacy of knowledge, finds faults with her husband. This way such fault-finding attitude takes hold of her character, as a result of which instead of becoming his follower she becomes his contender— this is generally seen in households.

Again, if a man takes his wife before attaining the age normal for the blossoming of his fatherly instincts, then unhealthy and undernourished offspring may be born. That is why, perhaps, seers were in favour of so much difference of ages.

The various aspects of reformation! Spirituality is for this present world! Industry means building up from within! Marriage reformation! Only Dharma can bring fulfillment!

Quest:— Well, if self-governance can no way achieved unless the country be reformed, then doing what the reformation of the nation can be accelerated? This can’t be achieved in a short time, can it?

Beloved the Lord:— It may happen in a short time, it may take long too— all depend on bringing in the reform, on activity. And activity means to apply our energy in the right way.

            Progressive mood, marriage reform, and industry will have to be inducted into the society; normal diet and mode of living, normal exercise through activity, and elevative engagement will have to be introduced into the health; Service basis, profitable management, and continuity will have to be installed in the industry; and all these come from true education, so, we must especially bring elevative intellectualism, and practical and industrial training in education. Like a being can be divided into three aspects— psychological, physical and dynamic, similarly each of education, health, society and industry or labour has to be divided into those three aspects.

Quest:— But all this is nation building that you are speaking about— where is spirituality in this?

Beloved the Lord:— Everything has a psychological aspect, that is spirituality; there must be introspectiveness, or cause-finding tendency.

Quest:— People may say, ‘Why should we go to Thakur to listen to all these talks? Aren’t these of this material world?

Beloved the Lord:— It is the talks of this material world that count. This entire spiritual endeavour is for this world alone.

Quest:— This world is not everything— is not this the main proposition of dharma! Beyond all these that are readily seen, there is man’s ideal and man’s everything— this is that dharma, for which man spontaneously wants to sacrifice this world to that next world, isn’t it so?

Beloved the Lord:— This world means the world that remains within the purview of human knowledge, and the next world means that from all this have come which man comes to know only by constant devout endeavour by awakening his own sense organs in a specific manner. Hence the connection of this world with that next world is inseparable; and this knowing stretches the boundaries of man’s world into further expansion.

Quest:— You are speaking about the progressive mood which has to be brought into the society— what does this mean?

Beloved the Lord:— Progressive mood means love and admiration for a higher ideal. Like the admiration towards Buddha through Ashoka made the formation of such an empire possible that is beyond imagination today. Exactly that has to be done which can bring such progressive mood. And to bring the ideas such as these have to be spread among the masses, as had been done by Nitshe, by Marx or by Lenin. Ideas such as to maintain progressive mood should be published, while publications hostile to that must be discouraged, schools and colleges should be moulded, and for this operas, epical shows, theater, novels, bioscope, radio, lectures and dramas are needed, and kinds of elevating textbooks or literature.

Quest:— You are just talking about literature, but the literature that are seen today is as if infected to the backbone by perverted ideals! The worship of the woman and sense organs is going on ceremoniously in full measure— and the picture of destruction inevitable from this has become brightly apparent in stories, poems, novels and dramas. What do you mean by elevating literature?

Beloved the Lord:— If worship means to elevate in all respects and if the literature of today is impediment to that, then how can that be called worship? That is nothing but the worship of death in woman, the worship of decay in growth,— what else can be thought of this? The ideal of literature is to convey to the society the inspiration of attachment to the Ideal, and not only to the society but to every individual. If literature does not do this, then that is the invoker of death. By elevating literature I understand thus— with the co-habitation of which makes us elevation-oriented in all respects, and which bestows the unfailing inspiration to accelerate being and becoming.

Quest:— What you say is mere ethics, but ethics is not literature at all!

Beloved the Lord:— Literature, in fact, establishes ethical principles, and these principles take us to the goal. The literature that does not conform to ethics is not at all useful to mankind, is not truth either. And truth is that which thoroughly nourishes being and becoming.

Quest:— To judge usefulness is something like maintaining accounts— that cannot be art, can it?

Beloved the Lord:— Art means— the device by which or through which nature, truth or life can be presented before man with sensation. That is or the device of that is art as I understand.

Quest:— Lies, death, rubbish, abnormalities, sensual-subjugation too can be presented with sensation. Today such a tendency is apparent in literature, art and music,— aren’t these also art?

Beloved the Lord:— Yes, it may be, but we don’t want that as that invokes catastrophe. So even if art, it is opposite.

Quest:— Why the tragedies of Shakespeare and nude beauty of Greece are the expressions of greatest art, aren’t they?

Beloved the Lord:— If these establish our that very nature, truth and life, then why can’t they be called art!

Quest:— Progressive mood and industry have to be brought into the society as you are talking about; what does this bringing industry into society mean?

Beloved the Lord:— Indo means within, and struere means to build up— i.e. industry means building up from within. Amusing mood has to be brought into work. Just as one’s lover asks one to do something and one rushes flouncingly to have it done; if we can work with the same amusing mood, then only we shall be industrious. Marriages are taking place in an improper manner; who has taken whose wife— all this contributes to the cessation of all activities. Only through marriage reform can industry come.

Quest:— What do you mean by who has taken whose wife?

Beloved the Lord:— That means, the woman whose source of delightment and upliftment, and the exaltation of whose health and heart is the complexes of a particular man, is verily the wife of that man. Instead of this if anything adverse happens, it is difficult to say whose wife has gone to whom!

Quest:— Have we become idle because of this? But the smarts of hunger has become more important to us nowadays! and today’s Philosophy of Hunger claims that man’s impulse for activity comes from this very hunger! In fact, everything we do merely for the sake filling our stomach, isn’t it?

Beloved the Lord:— Oh yes, we do! We quench our hunger by any means whatsoever, committing theft, robbery; still efficiency does not come in spite of all this.

Quest:— So through marriage kamini (woman) and through industry kanchan (gold) will be gained; at the conclusion of which, are woman and gold the key factors of your dharma?

Beloved the Lord:— No, not that. Marriage will provide the woman who complements to man’s temperament and be his companion in life’s endeavour, and whose only delight, contentment and nourishment is to make him exuberant in being and becoming with the Ideal through her nurturing and service. And as a result of that, industry or whatsoever will automatically come. So where there is dharma, Artha (money) has to be there— and Kama (desire), Moksha (salvation) are its mere conductors, aren’t they?

Quest:— But on the other hand Ramakrishnadev has said, ‘Stay away from kamini and kanchan’— what about that?

Beloved the Lord:— Lord Ramakrishna’s ‘stay away from kamini and kanchan’ means something else, i.e. kamini is maddening lustful inclination for woman, and kanchan is that which nourishes that very lust; so to stay away from this is a must duty! That is the road to death— for both and woman.