What is self-governance or liberty? The relation between Dharma & Science— Sages & Scientists— the observation through sensation & the observation through analysis! The need of centralized Reformation!!

Quest:— What will we do with this life or sort of things like dharma, religion, or constant devout endeavour— what have we achieved either, if we still remain subjugated— if we cannot bring the environment under control! What is your idea of self-governance or liberty?

Beloved the Lord:— I do not understand self-governance as hostility towards the British. By self-governance what I understand is— if we can do whatever should be done in order to keep my own existence sustain, only then true self-governance is achieved. Only when we can establish my own ‘self’ both within and without, I may gain true self-governance. If the British are enemies of that, they will automatically quit— and if they are friends, they will normally be amalgamated with us.

            Take an example, if someone in infected with germs of tuberculosis, the doctors try to keep him in good health, and for that, they make necessary arrangements for nutritious diets, fresh air, etceteras. When the patient recovers, they declare— ‘he is out of danger’. Similarly, we also have to regain good health first, and so in order to elevate activity and to push becoming institutions like bank, factory should be established.

Quest:— But when the interests of the British will be hurt, will they not destroy these institutions, the way they have destroyed our textile industry?

Beloved the Lord:— Only we are to blame for whatever has been lost. If we had no faults of our own, nobody could have destroyed them.

Quest:— The British have arms and ammunitions, guns and cannons and aircrafts; they can easily spoil all our efforts. And if we try to manufacture guns and cannons, they will prevent us— what is the way out then?

Beloved the Lord:— If we do anything that operates adversely to being and becoming of the living beings and the world, then that must be crushed; because, it is undoubtedly true that none of us wants to die. We can embrace only such a death that may lead us to the life eternal. If we can invent something or anything, which makes man’s being and becoming essentially unimpaired, then that will be everyone’s interest— what everyone wishes. Nobody will break that to crush; and if anyone does, his living will be no more to live.

            Guns and cannons can be the cause of one’s own death if used in unsound health,— if we eat something that we cannot digest, or like a body-builder try to lift weight, then rather than doing any good to our health that will be detrimental. So, first we need education, health, industry and society.

Quest:— Shall we be able to be successful in these sectors before our country get freedom? Take the example of education,— Hiren Dutta organized a system of national education. But he has been rather unsuccessful in his endeavour, how so?

Beloved the Lord:— There is nothing called national or foreign about education; such differentiation is a symptom of diseased state.

Quest:— What, then, is the ideal of education?

Beloved the Lord:— Whatever that is worth knowing has to be acquired according to one’s utmost ability. Languages of different countries have to be learnt, sciences have to be mastered— and not only studied, they have to be realized and materialized in a practical way also.

Quest:— There is a big laboratory at the Presidency College but, why the research going on there has done little in increasing the wealth of the country?

Beloved the Lord:— This is because, doing research and doing a salaried job cannot go together. The research which is carried on with the inspiration of thoughts and the endeavour for solution of what is the necessity of the country, what ensures the well-being of the citizens, how their health, education, prosperity and peace may be enhanced and maintained— is the real research, and verily, this is Aryan Dharma. Scientists of other developed countries exactly do this, and so, even without making any hullabaloo they are truly dhārmik— the performers of dharma.

Quest:— It is said that there is no relation between dharma and science, rather inimical if there is any. Science augments mundane luxury and dharma enunciates renunciation!

Beloved the Lord:— Science itself is the pathfinder of immortality. It is science that shows us— how to remain happy, how to grow and how to remain alive. So, dharma itself beckons science. The philosophy of spiritualism is science. While observing the spirit whatever is there occupying that spirit also becomes visible; and that knowledge is science, that knowledge is spiritualism.

Quest:— Are the sage’s way of knowing and the scientist’s way of knowing the same kind? Of what type are our country’s seers or the persons practicing ascetic austerities? Are they also what we understand as scientists?

Beloved the Lord:— As the scientist’s way of knowing is through observation, so also the sage’s way of knowing. Scientist proceeds through continually analyzing the object, and the sage aiming at the cause investigates that. Hence their perceptions too vary. The perception of the sage comes through sensation and that of the scientist comes through sense organs which are accompanied by inference. When that attitude grows in a scientist, he may become sage.

Quest:— What is the stream of the sage’s attitude?

Beloved the Lord:— If the scientist is a research-man and at the same time a sage, then all the visions that appear before him are through sensation; and if he has the attitude to materialize that physically through research, only then the adjustment of both the observation through sensation and the observation through analysis comes and perfect sensation of things can be acquired. The attitude of a sage means— that he seeks to find out the cause by analyzing his complexes— the complexes which come from the environment,— therefore, his inclination towards the cause is solemn and grave.

Quest:— Well, what, then, is the difference between the sensation and the perception through any particular sense organ?

Beloved the Lord:— The feeling which one gets being partially to some object remaining above that— is called sensation; like, when we feel the shock of electric battery. And another is seeing with eyes, listening with ears— that do not affect our being. The way Kanad, Kekule came to know the dance of atoms was with sensation; so also St. Augustine, Swedenborg and others got such feeling, as I have heard. The realization of a sage is just like that of the glass on which some particular thing can be reflected, and though the glass is tinged by that, it never turns into that.

Quest:— It is seen that the study of science is pursued amply over here in your place,— there is also a research laboratory. If something is ever invented here that is dangerous for the existence of the government, won’t they shut it down at once?

Beloved the Lord:— Any invention that hampers someone’s existence is the servitor of death, if that hampering does not make the being in general all the more unhampered and goads towards good. What is the meaning of government? We, the people, are the government, isn’t so! Besides if we have once invented something, what does it matter if that is shut down? There should be no more problem once we come to know how to bend the iron into our desired shape after heating it.

Quest:— Arrest, even imprisonment or death may be the destiny if that invention is sought to be materialized, but nothing can be done in reality!

Beloved the Lord:— No, that is not so. If I don’t have the least intention to create any hostility with the government, then they will not oppose what I’m doing. Because, what I’m doing is not only for this region but for the whole humanity; therefore opposition will not come. They oppose only when I do something that will hurt the governor, otherwise why will they oppose us? Induced by jealousy and egged on by greed for conquering kingdom Ashok waged only one battle in his lifetime, in which nothing but brutal killing had been established; he didn’t find a place in anyone’s heart. Later he realized his mistake; therefore he had to fight no more battles. The flag of culture what was born by him augmented India’s glory and did much good to the world. Only then did he become the true conqueror— people became indomitable for his existential upkeep, for he was favourable to their existence.

Quest:— Do you then, want to say that subjugation has not restricted our activity in the least?

Beloved the Lord:— We have been crippled not so much by the restriction of our activity resulting from subjugation as by being served, i.e. by getting from others the services for our whatever essential commodities, compared to which the subjugation is potentially far less harmful.

Quest:— Well, how long will it take for us to achieve the real self-governance what you are speaking about?

Beloved the Lord:— Twenty years after we become reformed.

Quest:— And how long will it take for us to be reformed?

Beloved the Lord:— That depends on our activity. As long as we shall be jealous seeing the rise of others, e.g. C. R. Das has become a leader, I couldn’t; as long as such thoughts continue to float in our mind, we will never succeed. First such thinking must depart. Then, in this country we, of different sects, live together; the Vaishnavas have Lord Krishna, Lord Gouranga, The Christians have Jesus, the Muslims have Mohammad. As long as we shall continue to slander them, and as long as we shall not be regardful towards them, the hope of development will remain much distant and hard to achieve.

Quest:— Reformation, then, means changing the mentality of the nation, isn’t it? Should we then abstain from the effort to achieve self-governance until that happens?

Beloved the Lord:— Nothing will be achieved if we plan for achieving self-governance without reformation. We can never get that what we wish to get, if we do not do the way it can be got; therefore, to achieve something the reformation accordant with that is absolutely necessary. And for that wherever whatever adjustment is required should be done. So, to achieve anything the proceeding should in the way making the relevant reformation its basis.

Quest:— All right, it is understood that without achieving the development of society, health, education and industry we can’t be reformed; but if this effort is initiated by hardly one or two persons in few places in this huge nation, then how long will it take to reform the whole nation?

Beloved the Lord:— Though this slows down the pace of work, but if such endeavour becomes successful, then that spreads everywhere; because, it is man’s nature to hold on to success. For instance, one textile mill of guernsey was set up in Pabna; after that several others mushroomed. However to increase mass-strength the centralization of all reformations should be needed.

Is Death A Curable Disease? What's The Difference between Matter & Spirit? The Mystery Of Birth & Death, & Emancipation!

Quest:— You think death is a curable disease— it is a kind of disease of which man can get remedy, isn’t it?

Beloved the Lord:— I consider many deaths curable. At least deaths in which organs are not damaged are curable— like heart failure, drowning, cholera etc. Man can be brought into life from such deaths,— beings can be revived by induction of life-energy.

Quest:— Have you done it?

Beloved the Lord:— No, but I think it is possible. Not only I, but many Western thinkers also are carrying on research on this subject now.

Quest:— Have you done any experiment on it?

Beloved the Lord:— I haven’t done anything with the sense of experimentation but, I have seen such things take place. Long ago I had seen that without any intention of reviving if something, that makes the life-energy excited, e.g. Name consist of the root, can be revolved in the mind and the object can be steadily gazed, then some results do come out of it.

I saw a cockroach dead. I kept gazing at it over a stretch of about fifteen minutes, felt pain in the mind, and did repetition of the Holy Name intensely and incessantly. When my nerves became highly sensitive and receptive, I looked at the insect— within half an hour it revived and went away.

Another day, it was a beetle,— half of it eaten away by something— within an hour after I kept gazing at it, its limbs began movements; for a long time it remained in that state and then died. It might have happened owing to some other reason, I don’t know; but I thought it happened as a result of my doing so because, before doing that I had according to my intelligence tested it to be lifeless.

Quest:— Well, what do you call lifeless? What is the difference between matter and life?

Beloved the Lord:— Me seems, everything has life— even a grain of sand has life. Every substance becomes attached to something and again becomes detached from something. And anything that has the tendency to be attached and detached has life. Whatever is palpable to our senses and which has entity, which has existence— is matter; and that which makes this entity and existence sustain and grow is verily life. Besides this I don’t know anything else as matter or inanimate.

Quest:— Would you please speak something about your experiences in the spiritual world?

Beloved the Lord:— I don’t understand anything as spiritual world. Whatever I see before is the world. There is the fine before the gross, the finer before the fine, the finest before the finer and it goes on thus. Whatever we come across is verily the universe,— and that from which it has originated is the cause.

Quest:— Are not matter and spirit separate then?

Beloved the Lord:— I understand the cause that lies behind the gross, of which the gross is the effect— is verily the spirit of that.

Quest:— Like water behind ice?

Beloved the Lord:—  Exactly.

Quest:— These however can be observed with naked eyes— I’m not talking of these. But of those that are behind this— like where man goes after his death, what he does there, what he eats? —do you have any idea of these things?

Beloved the Lord:— What man was before his death has to be known first. How man came into being— man is the conglomeration of some ideas— that idea becomes attached to some external things.

Quest:— How it happens?

Beloved the Lord:— Jāyā ( wife) means by which man is brought forth. How is man born? —If he is born again, then how does he remain alive? —That connotes the specified feelings or ideas by which man remains inspired becomes embodied and infused with life within the wife. Then after the delivery which is the result of infusing life with the specified ideas, i.e. the child who, soon after his birth, comes across the conflicts with his environment, especially with his mother. Conflict means spur of impulse. As a result of this, those impulses through sensation continues to be recorded in the brain in due succession. In this way, gradually the child keeps on to be nourished both in body and idea. Then the ideas that are infused with life from the father, take birth having been embodied within the mother; the child goes on to fulfill them through various conflicts of his environment. In a way to fulfill them is as it were the mission of man’s life.

And in order to fulfill himself through those conflicts, only through confronting the unfavourable and acquiring the favourable the deeper impressions that are recorded in the mind, he becomes obsessed with the deepest of them at the time of death and for this reason he becomes disconnected from the links of other ideas, and so the conflicts of environment can no more work in him— therefore he becomes off— dead. The idea with which he passes away becomes his continuity after death— and that continues to remain as if in the ethereal ocean the tremor of that idea raises the waves. That with which he passed away was collected by himself from his own world. Again he will be born only there where a man, whose brain is aroused by the same type of waves of ideas, mates— like the wireless photo transmission of television.

Quest:— What does he do or eat after his death?

Beloved the Lord:— Everyone does according to his desire. Suppose a deceased had loved somebody in this world. But there may be some things about him that the deceased did not like— such as his rude behaviour etc. Verily this enjoyment of love and repulsion of rude behaviour become prominent after death. If the deceased had not been given a glass of water in this world, perhaps in the world beyond that becomes prominent. The condition one may be in when pain or happiness continues is somewhat similar to what man comes across after death.

Quest:— I couldn’t quite understand. How does one eat the rice offered to him at the time of shrāddha— the solemn rites performed after his death? What is this shrāddha either?

Beloved the Lord:— You just imagine within your mind that you have served food to someone and he has eaten and felt contented,— it is almost like that. Though it is not that the deceased will eat just because he has been served; he has the desire but he may be otherwise focused. Therefore, those, say son, who are almost in tune, have the right to perform shrāddha. What do we perform in shrāddha? We treat those in the surrounding at a banquet— the significance of it is to keep the dead person’s in-ing positions well and healthy. That is why providing a dinner for five Brahmins, who are well-versed in Veda, would yield better results than treating many people at grand banquet.

And the purpose of shrāddha is to inspire the individuals of that environment, in which the emergence and expiry of the deceased had taken place, as far as possible with the narration of his qualities and glories through my impulses of shraddhā— respect towards the deceased— so that those, through whom he may be able to obtain corporeal body, remain well, healthy and inspired by his sentiment and ideas. And this is the reason why, perhaps apprehending that in a banquet given on large scale the opposite of this act of inspiring may happen, scriptures have prohibited such grand banquet.

And with entreating solicitation inviting them and treating them to a dinner, who are near ones but not grief-stricken, and them who are Brahmins well-versed in Veda, have been prescribed. The reason behind this is, that they can easily be imbued with respect and sympathy towards the deceased.

Quest:— It is said that if shrāddha is done properly one may obtain ascension and if not done properly one may get damnation— what is the significance of it?

Beloved the Lord:— Well, take the instance of banquet given on the occasion of shrāddha. Suppose such a one has died, of whose shrāddha you are the rightful performer. He was pretty rich and eminent person, so, how it is possible that on the occasion of his shrāddha you refrain from arranging a special grand banquet and from inviting for dinner those who are inferior, half-starved and poor people; what will people say either if don’t do this— considering all these things you have invited all and sundry and treated them well as much as you could afford without making any discrimination, but you couldn’t satisfy anyone’s aspiration, couldn’t properly serve with adoration. So they become offended and keep saying things like, ‘O, what a horrible specimen of a host he is! His relative (the deceased) was like such and such, what else can be expected of him?’ and so on, and in this manner growling in vexation and anger they leave— stirring up thus and atmosphere of disrepute.

            Suppose in all such brains that bad aspect of the deceased— which he had not liked but under some compulsion did some mistakes somewhere— has become the very subject of their gossiping and thinking. And aroused by such thoughts going home, they, men and women keep on discussing the same topic. Thus if through the mating of a man and a woman obsessed with such thoughts enters the spirit of that deceased, then you can understand where the matter comes finally! Perhaps for this reason, there is such ruling in the scriptures. If this is the main factor of rebirth and if we violate the ruling of the scripture to establish our ego— then the consequences— if Providence be true— will be such what must be true.

Quest:— Some say that, after death, man gradually rises to higher and higher planes, he doesn’t have to come down again to earth— is it true?

Beloved the Lord:— No, without coming back again as an embodied being he can’t proceed further, because, this is the continuity of ideas, and until he is born again he can’t rise upwards. In dream man may ride horse, but it is only after the dream breaks that he finds new objects. As long as that dream continues, all that constitute the surroundings of the horse-ride continues. Until some other situation disturbs that state, it is not possible to enter into another state. And so, the moment that breaks, that state changes into another through the conflict with some other object and can proceed towards one state to another.

            The gradual improvement of knowledge takes place in accordance with the alteration of learning and the previous knowledge can properly be realized only through the acquisition of later; thus on the basis of that the universe of man’s knowledge too expands. For example, there are solid, liquid, gaseous, atomic and electronic substances. The true knowledge about solid occurs only when we come to know the liquid. Similarly, solid and liquid can be truly known when we have the knowledge of gaseous substance.

            Likewise, there are also various planes of knowing the creation and the universe. There is nirvikalpa samādhi, i.e. the absolute upkeep of thorough conception, or parama dhām— the supreme abode according to Vaishnava, or nirvāna the emancipation as called by Buddhist— and so on of various planes.

            Hence as much extraordinary a knowing is, the birth after one passes away with that knowing is so much rare, because, that type of conception is exceptional in the surrounding— this is what me seems.

Quest:— Things like atom, electron are but finer elements of the universe, aren’t they? Does man, after his death, become absorbed in these finer elements or remain as something else?

Beloved the Lord:— Suppose our physique with its activity is, as it were, some radio receiving and transmission plant. The impulses, coming from our environment are generating many ideas within us with sensation that are being recorded in our brain and being transmitted— and this process goes on ceaselessly. Being obsessed with a particular thought at the time of death, the moment one becomes disassociated  from all other factors of the environment, this mechanism breaks and resulting in that particular thought becomes transmitted into a subtler plane in the form of waves.

            Again, suppose in every individual of the environment there remains a receiving plant and imagine the complexes that exist within us, as crystal. Only that type of waves, which these crystals will become adjusted by some impulse to receive, will be received,— and this is the prime law of physicalization. For example, ether is a fine component and within its waves is the continuity of a specific vibration of the ether-particles. After death what we remain is also a continuity of wave of the universe of ideas. As is the difference between ether-particles and ether-waves, similar is the difference between the primary fine component and our state after death.

Quest:— How has this knowledge of law— the intricate mystery of birth and death, been known?

Beloved the Lord:— I’ve said already that knowing means the consummation of our complexes into one, like jewels strung to a single thread. As If, to become gratified by fulfilling someone with whatever good or bad that I possess , is the mission of life— thus become my very nature; and to do this whatever needs to be done is sādhanā— the constant devout endeavour. By this constant devout endeavour our brain cells become more sensitive and receptive. Verily from that our finer impulses too  come within the jurisdiction of our sensation,— and it is in this way that we come to know. Thus we can understand, how the impulses are received and how they are transmitted either.

Quest:— How are we born again?

Beloved the Lord:— Like wireless television, as I’ve already stated. As the physical arrangement that is taken place in our brain as a result of action and reaction of the environment on it, and the type of waves it can be able to receive; similar type of being is ensured to be physicalized.

Quest:— In the sky, in the air, unsubstantiated and unsupported states after death what you are talking about— in that sort of state existence is tantamount to non-existence. Are then the sayings like perpetual life, attainment of immortality mere delirium or emotional outburst of poet?

Beloved the Lord:— What is poet’s emotional outburst? We do like to think,— although no direct evidence is available, still it is good to think that way.

Quest:— We desire to become immortal— then why do we die?

Beloved the Lord:— It is in the hope of coming across immortality by going through death after death. The very thought of death brings man within the purview of death. Repelled attachment stretches its hand to embrace death,— so, love, without cherishing any expectation for getting, is the co-traveler of immortality.

Quest:— We find that while remaining persistently engaged in a particular thinking our personality expands,— and so if at the time of death all the ideas are broken and a single idea prevails, then instead of the feeling of expansion why does my I-ness shrink?

Beloved the Lord:— Complex means such a compartment into which another complex cannot enter or one with which another has no concordance.

            At the time of death the shallow complexes vanish one by one. So, by that particular complex among them which is deep-seated one becomes possessed at the time of death verily with the same idea with which that complex was formed. Therefore, he becomes possessed by that which is shrunken, which has no affinity and adjustment with any other; and this is death.

            And those whose complexes have been converged at one, i.e. like jewels strung from a single thread, have been penetrated, they do not die, but become emancipated and culminate the expansion— this is what the scriptures say.

Quest:— What does this emancipation mean?

Beloved the Lord:— Emancipation doesn’t mean annihilation but, penetrating the complexes. And as much he or those have been able to penetrate the complexes, so much he or those are fit for every serviceable position to the environment. And the more the environment becomes attached with such penetrated complex, the more the complexes of the environment become adjusted, attain complacence,— therefore, surrender to them makes man great, venerable, wise and loving. So, herein lies the significance of emancipation, i.e. the environment, in its own way, cannot sever and split us in sunder. Even remaining for everyone he stands untottering at his distinctiveness; therefore, as the crystals of sugar candy crystallize around the thread, the environment too in the same way remain crystallized around them— as if one person with all that are there. So, man finds the awakening of godhead in Him, and He is called God. That is why perhaps, the Vaishnavas say— God alone is the Man, everything else is nymph.

Quest:— In such case man himself happens to be God! But can man ever be God?

Beloved the Lord:— With all those things that godhead is constituted is verily godliness— wherever that may exist— in from or in formless— embodied or disembodied. If sweetness indicates sugar, then anything sweet must be comprised of sugar— whatever that may be.